Wish List for Pirates! 2
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Chuko
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 Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:36 am Post subject: Wish List for Pirates! 2 |
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It was only a matter of time before such a list came into exsistance, and since there has been the lack of one so far, I took it apon myself to create one. What are you looking foward to in the next version of Pirates? What could be done to improve the masterpiece of the 1987 version (other than improved visuals) or the auful, buggy Pirates! Gold Version?
My list is below
- A feature that was present within Pirates! but strangly lacking in Pirates! Gold was the ability to divide your fleet. This was of the upmost importance in various missions such as rescuing your family or getting treasure which were located in the Bahamas.
- A feature that may prove some intrest could be the adition of land battles, say for example, you are marching over the Panama Ithlimus to plunder the Silver Train and lo and behold, you run into it crossing to Porto Bello. A massive land battle takes place. How this would actully work is beyond me
- Galleon vs. Pinnance. This is a mixed feature, and one of my favorate tactics, that is if they do not get a direct broadside apon you, but in terms of realism, it does not seem right you, and your 64 men in a row boat (which what essencally a Pinnace was) taking on and capturing a War Galleon, with 264 well trained troops. Perhaps this could be changed, but I am against this.
- Multi-ship Battles. More than one vessel takes part in a sea battle. This could be useful for using a smaller fleet to pummel a war galleon into the ground, or you could run into the treasure fleet, and you and your fleet of Frigates takes on 30+ galleons of the Treasure Fleet. Now that would be good. How would this be done with more than one ship? Perhaps you could hire skilled buccaneers or marines, each with varing skill and loyalty to command your various vessels. Within battle, you can give them general orders, such as bombard the enemy ship, close in to attack, and board the ship, while these vessels remain automated. When an automated ship is boarded, various varioable could turn the tide of the conflict. If the skill of your officer is greater than the skill of the enemy captians, the morale, the numbewr of sailors, and the number of soldiers ect
- Different classes of sailors. For example, buccaneers, merchant sailors, marines, pirates, slaves ect, each with different strenths and weakensses, different morale during battle, different loyalty to yourself, lessening the chance of Mutiney if they go without gold for too long. For example, the Marine would be the hardest to get, his fighting is supurb, his morale is high, as is his loyalty, but his sailing skills are low, meaning that you cannot fill your ship with just marines, while buccaneers are moderatly good at fighting, high morale, medeum sailing skills, but wants a high supply of gold to keep happy.
- A new fighting system. The old version was simple. But if I was a real pirate, I could not win every time by just pressing the 7 button on the numberpad. Definatly has to ghange. Perhaps a feature such as in Dynasty Warriors, where once you board a ship, you have complete control over your charicter, and you can kill how many people you want...
- The evolution of towns. No matter how much you developed it, towns would never change (maybe thier economic status, and somtimes thanks to malaria, new Governers, and pirate raids) but what I am getting at is that forts should be constructed, the ability to invest in a city may be seen as useful,
- The ablity to, in order to improve your social standing, invest in the land you gain from promotions, hence gaining more personal wealth and better social standing
- I was going to write sothing else, but I fogot what it was. Oh well, it looks like I babblled on a bit, any comments would be apreciated, and I would also like to hear your views on the matter.
Chuko
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Captian of the Ryokuryuukai!
Status of Ships;
Sloop Syzer sunk, all hands presumed dead
Frigate Sezcka, 28 guns, 260 men
Sloop of War Aozora, 12 guns, 120 men |
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MarkQuinn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A feature that was present within Pirates! but strangly lacking in Pirates! Gold was the ability to divide your fleet. This was of the upmost importance in various missions such as rescuing your family or getting treasure which were located in the Bahamas. |
Agreed.
| Quote: | | A feature that may prove some intrest could be the adition of land battles, say for example, you are marching over the Panama Ithlimus to plunder the Silver Train and lo and behold, you run into it crossing to Porto Bello. A massive land battle takes place. How this would actully work is beyond me. |
You bring up an interetsing point. If the game is to be in 3D how will they handle land battles at all? Or will they omit them? I'm sure you know Chuko that Pirates! always did have land battles, but they were (IMO) uninteresting, unweildy affairs. It's impossible to say how land battles will be handled in P!2, but it would make sense for the sea battles to be in 3D while the land battles might be more of a 3rd person affair with a panoramic view of the battlefield (think "Total War").
| Quote: | | Galleon vs. Pinnance. This is a mixed feature, and one of my favorate tactics, that is if they do not get a direct broadside apon you, but in terms of realism, it does not seem right you, and your 64 men in a row boat (which what essencally a Pinnace was) taking on and capturing a War Galleon, with 264 well trained troops. Perhaps this could be changed, but I am against this. |
One hopes Firaxis will make this game more of a simulator and enhance the realism. If we can use POTC as a benchmark for what the new age of sailing games should look (and sail) like, we may have good news on this front. In POTC I wouldn't dare face a galleon with any smaller vessel for fear of being cut to shreds by the time I closed in for a boarding action. Of course the annals of pirate history do include sailboats full of men hijacking under the cover of night larger vessels riding at anchor. It would have to be a pretty deep, complex, full-featured game to allow for that level of simulation --- and I doubt that's gonna happen. So in the end, yes, I agree that pinances/sloops should not be able to take galleons. And yet galleons are there and must be plundered. Firaxis have a tough job on their hands if increased graphics are to go hand-in-hand with increased realism.
| Quote: | | Multi-ship Battles. More than one vessel takes part in a sea battle. This could be useful for using a smaller fleet to pummel a war galleon into the ground, or you could run into the treasure fleet, and you and your fleet of Frigates takes on 30+ galleons of the Treasure Fleet. Now that would be good. How would this be done with more than one ship? Perhaps you could hire skilled buccaneers or marines, each with varing skill and loyalty to command your various vessels. Within battle, you can give them general orders, such as bombard the enemy ship, close in to attack, and board the ship, while these vessels remain automated. When an automated ship is boarded, various varioable could turn the tide of the conflict. If the skill of your officer is greater than the skill of the enemy captians, the morale, the numbewr of sailors, and the number of soldiers ect |
Let's hope (this does go without saying, doesn't it?) that there WILL be multi-ship battles as opposed to the old Pirates! standard of picking one ship from your fleet to attack the one enemy vessel. Again I refer to POTC, an otherwise poor game which still does many thing well. Chuko have you played POTC? While there is of course room for many improvements I think they handle the multi-ship battles very well. I desperately hope Firaxis are playing POTC and taking what is good from it to use in their own endeavors. And you should also play it if you haven't already --- it will maybe hold you over until the Holy Grail of pirate games is finally released.
| Quote: | | Different classes of sailors. For example, buccaneers, merchant sailors, marines, pirates, slaves ect, each with different strenths and weakensses, different morale during battle, different loyalty to yourself, lessening the chance of Mutiney if they go without gold for too long. For example, the Marine would be the hardest to get, his fighting is supurb, his morale is high, as is his loyalty, but his sailing skills are low, meaning that you cannot fill your ship with just marines, while buccaneers are moderatly good at fighting, high morale, medeum sailing skills, but wants a high supply of gold to keep happy. |
I would question some of the choices made here for sailor classes, but overall a deeper system for sailor loyalty and ability would be welcomed.
| Quote: | | A new fighting system. The old version was simple. But if I was a real pirate, I could not win every time by just pressing the 7 button on the numberpad. Definatly has to ghange. Perhaps a feature such as in Dynasty Warriors, where once you board a ship, you have complete control over your charicter, and you can kill how many people you want... |
Chuko, again I refer to POTC and advise you to try it. I think you will be pleased with how that was handled (although boarding actions IMO could last much longer than they do).
| Quote: | | The evolution of towns. No matter how much you developed it, towns would never change (maybe thier economic status, and somtimes thanks to malaria, new Governers, and pirate raids) but what I am getting at is that forts should be constructed, the ability to invest in a city may be seen as useful |
Another new game called Port Royale handles this VERY well. Although in Pirates! 2 I would be happy if they stuck with what worked before. Supply and demand for goods always fluctuated the price, new governors as you say were installed and pirates attackd these towns independently of your actions. That's enough for me.
| Quote: | | The ablity to, in order to improve your social standing, invest in the land you gain from promotions, hence gaining more personal wealth and better social standing |
Cutthroats touched on that but never expanded it well. I would settle for having my own 3D home where I could return after long voyages, talk to my wife (how about having children also which would increase your final talley in "The Further Adventures of....") and stowe some of my riches (in that I refer to Morrowind where, with the help of some usermade homestead you could make fine displays of your treasures).
| Quote: | | I was going to write sothing else, but I fogot what it was. Oh well, it looks like I babblled on a bit, any comments would be apreciated, and I would also like to hear your views on the matter. |
Excellent ideas all in all. As I said in another post I am reluctant to put too much energy into a wishlist because first of all Firaxis will probably never read these posts and second of all, in the end, they're going to make the game they want to make anyway, constrained by time and financial issues, and we may end up with overinflated wishes for this perfect, grandiose pirate simulation that we may never get. I think (not to get too ahead of myself here) that a wishlist is better suited for AFTER the release of the game once we've played it and have a better idea of its abilities. Then we can make requests for features in the first patch, LOL.
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Chuko
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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No I have not had the cance to play Pirates of the Carribean, and I too agree that the game will most likely end up like most of Firaxis recent games, a very poor effort. Yes, all the features that we want may be in there, but it just does not have the replayibility the previous game had, take Civ 2 and 3 for example. I played Civ 2 for up to five years, while civ 3 only lasted me a single year.
As I have posted previously, I still play Pirates! today, due to its exelent replayibility, but will Sid be able to capture the essence of the first game? I highly doubt it.
The sailor choices were just off the top of my head, so there was no real effort put into that
_________________
Captian of the Ryokuryuukai!
Status of Ships;
Sloop Syzer sunk, all hands presumed dead
Frigate Sezcka, 28 guns, 260 men
Sloop of War Aozora, 12 guns, 120 men |
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MarkQuinn
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | and I too agree that the game will most likely end up like most of Firaxis recent games, a very poor effort. |
I don't remember saying that Firaxis' recent efforts have been poor, but I do tend to agree nontheless. But keep in mind a couple factors:
(1) With games like Civ3 we played them so much before that some of the appeal has worn off. Not all, of course. I know you're still playing Pirates! today and I have just restarted after downloading PGFW.
(2) With new technology and greatly enhanced graphics in today's games it's hard to go back to a 2D isometric view and fully enjoy it. For me this is the case, anyway.
Sid's Civil War series was pretty heavily criticized. People wondered if he had lost his touch. Maybe so, maybe not. I have a feeling that he (and his company) will however do a good job on Pirates! 2. People wondered for so long why he never did this earlier but isn't it possible that he was waiting for PC technology to reach the point where he could remake the game and truly dazzle us? I'm holding out hope for that possibility. At least we can maintain faith that it won't be an utter loser. If at the very least we have the exact same old Pirates! formula with greatly enhanced graphics --- at the VERY least --- wouldn't that be good enough? I think there's a very good chance we'll have that and a lot more.
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:51 am Post subject: |
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[quote="MarkQuinn"] | Quote: | If at the very least we have the exact same old Pirates! formula with greatly enhanced graphics --- at the VERY least --- wouldn't that be good enough
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Basically, that is all I think is required to make Pirates!2 acceptable. The playability of the game was what dragged me into the original. The graphics at the time were amazing, but it was the fact that I could start a new game that was completely different from the last that made me enjoy the game.
The game would only need small changes to be a winner. Any large overhauls in gameplay would probably ruin the experience of the original. |
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Falconer
Captain
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Totally agree there. There was a period in which reviewers would often talk about the game they were writing about as "more of the same". Often though, more of the same is great. UFO: Enemy Unknown and UFO: Terror from the deep (also known as Xcom) were like that. Same game with a different sauce.
I think most people here in the forum would be quite happy with the old Pirates! in updated format, though todays technology is so much more advanced that there's no way that Firaxis isn't going to be throwing in new stuff.  |
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KingWilly
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2003 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if Firaxis put some new elements into the game, as long as they don't detract from the good aspects of the original.
I originally had Pirates! on my C64, but when I upgraded to an Amiga 500, the improved graphics didn't really improve the game for me that much. It was the gameplay that kept me wanting to play over and over again, not the graphics.
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Zamphyr
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Originally Posted by MarkQuinn
I am reluctant to put too much energy into a wishlist because first of all Firaxis will probably never read these posts and second of all, in the end, they're going to make the game they want to make anyway, constrained by time and financial issues, and we may end up with overinflated wishes for this perfect, grandiose pirate simulation that we may never get |
Couldn't disagree more. First of all you never know that they won't read it. Although they must already have a good idea of what's going into it, you never know when one of your ideas would just be an easy code tweak to implement and make a better game. As you said, in the end they make the game they want/can given constraints, but with all the reading Sid does and the effort put into past games, I would bet they've been checking out the other pirate games the last couple of months to see what works/doesn't.
A second and possibly better reason to post wish lists - If a Firaxian did happen to wander thru here, even if it was as the game was finishing final testing, it gives their marketing department a better idea of what we'd like to see. Imagine game previews emphasizing items on your list that they had already planned or interviews at least hinting at why some of the more far-fetched features couldn't be included.
More info is always better.
As to wishlists, I'm going to have to check out some of the other games using this game engine to see what's possible. The best qualities of the original were its open-ended story and simple action sequences. While I like in depth games, its possible for a game to go too deep and become flawed(MOO3). As long as it is like the original and leaves beginning players an out (think being able to sail without having to take a sun sighting) then it should be a fun game. |
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KingWilly
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Another thing I liked about the original was that it wasn't too in depth (as mentioned by Zamphyr). You could just load the game and start playing without too much reading the manual. Sure, you could read the manual if you wanted more details,but any beginner could just start playing with some idea what they needed to do.
Sometimes simpler is better.
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Jeff_ATARI
Pirates! Official
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:02 pm Post subject: Keeping in touch |
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| Zamphyr wrote: | | Quote: | Originally Posted by MarkQuinn
I am reluctant to put too much energy into a wishlist because first of all Firaxis will probably never read these posts... |
Couldn't disagree more. First of all you never know that they won't read it. Although they must already have a good idea of what's going into it, you never know when one of your ideas would just be an easy code tweak to implement and make a better game...
A second and possibly better reason to post wish lists - If a Firaxian did happen to wander thru here, even if it was as the game was finishing final testing, it gives their marketing department a better idea of what we'd like to see. Imagine game previews emphasizing items on your list that they had already planned or interviews at least hinting at why some of the more far-fetched features couldn't be included.
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Hi MarkQuinn, hi Zamphyr,
Just thought I'd chime in here. I'm with Atari and I'll be the brand manager for the new release of Sid Meier's Pirates! (That means I'm handling the marketing, packaging, and other associated publishing tasks...) So you'll be seeing a bit more of me making appearances on forums like this one.
I'm a strong believer in keeping in touch with the fans of a game, since you are our evangelists and together you can spread the word about a good game better than any magazine ad or journalist review. While I can't say that Sid himself is poring over fan sites looking for suggestions, I will say that Sid and his designer and programming teams are giving a lot of thought to what made the original Pirates! special and how to continue this legacy on today's computers. Your wish lists and general feedback are an excellent way for me to keep in touch with what fans are hungry for, and to get that information back in front of the people that can Make It Happen. It also means that, like Zamphyr mentions, I can help shape what kind of info is first to appear in the press regarding the game. No promises, of course! Just know that people at Atari and Firaxis are indeed listening.
Look for more information and an official Sid Meier's Pirates! site some time after the holidays.
Best,
Jeff Foley
Sr. Brand Manager
Atari |
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Zamphyr
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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 See what I mean. Thanks Jeff! |
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El Diablo
Cutthroat
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds very good.
thanks a lot, Jeff.
PS.: If you look for Beta-tester's for the German localization...  -here you have one at all! 
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TLG
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:57 pm Post subject: THE game not to be screwed. |
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To all Firaxis people involved in the project :
1/ Keep it simple and build on the existing gameplay, it has stood the test of time. I know it is tempting to throw a bunch of revolutionary ideas in the mix but the risk is to unbalance the core gameplay. Testing is the key here and gameplay should remain the focus, gamers want something fun to play not Firaxis' Pirates Simulator 2003.
2/ Respect historical accuracy. It may sound dumb since most players do not have a clue on pirate history but by doing so, you could earn the respect of an audience much broader than the average 3D shooter gamer. Invest time and resources in the game manual, hire a talented PhD in history and let him handle the historical background for you. Then, and only then, you will have some serious content to submit to the mainstream (and not too dumb) mass-media. Make your product shine, broaden your audience, go for Time Magazine, national newspapers, not just IGN and Gamespot. Keep in mind most of the people who played the game fifteen years ago do not closely monitor game releases anymore, you must find a way to bring them the good word.
3/ Add a "classic mode" which retains most of the essence of the classic game. At least, if something is screwed up gameplay-wise, we will still have a great game.
BTW, I am in for the beta test if needed, email is on my website.
Cheers,
Thomas Le Gallais
webmaster of the lost tavern, serving the needs of the Pirates! community since 1998
http://frigate.free.fr |
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Capt-JakBlak
Swabbie
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| Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'd just like to say that Pirates! changed my life as a PC Game player. It was the only game I can actually recall playing on the C64 and then again on the PC, and then again when Gold came out. My manuals are in tatters and the disks are sun warped and broken, but my excitement about the prospect of being able to once more sally forth and raid and pillage in the name of my sovergein crown puts my heart and mind at ease. I can't wait till we see some screens and videos from this game, and when it comes out I'll be the first in line to pick it up. Since this is a forum for posting wishlists, here is my own:
1. Allow the player to customize their appearance. I'd really like to design and implement my own flag. Since there is talk of a Multiplayer aspect I would really like my enemies to know by my flag that it's me their attacking and so on.
2. Keep the world as turbulent as it was in the original. I loved the ability to change towns to my crown, but felt that if the english were at war with Spain that they would try and take back those towns I plundered. Also I'd like to see more directed efforts of Pirate Hunters that are after me. If I get too notorious, then send in a fleet to wipe me out, mafia style.
Also, as a side note, it wasn't really the storyline that drew me to play the game for years and years on end, but the world in which I played. I really did get involved in trading, not just raiding. I was determined to find the most beautiful bride the Carribean had to offer, and I wanted the largest estate I could get. All, so I wouldn't end up a peg-legged, old croonie telling stories to drunkards in some pitiful, little hole-in-the-wall tavern. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hopes up that this is the last game I will need to pick up next year. |
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KingWilly
Rigger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:16 am Post subject: |
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While playing the original last night, it suddenly occured to me that a simple change Firaxis could make would be the ability to purchase your own ship from the shipwright.
You could customise the ship (eg ask the shipwright for a merchantman with a bigger cargo hold and less room for cannon etc..). This of course should cost you heaps more than an ordinary ship, but would satisfy your specific needs.
...Just a thought, anyway.
I also like the idea of being able to customise your appearance and your flag. These sort of things shouldn't be too difficult for the programmers to complete.
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