Contest for Powder Monkeys!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
headrock
Rigger
Posts: 1567
312 Gold -
  
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: Contest for Powder Monkeys! |
 |
|
Spurred by the recent slight revival of the Life at Sea forum, I'd like to reminisce and perhaps get people going on some sailing discussion.
Hereby is an award-winning contest (ok, the awards are pitiful), but I'm hoping it will be rewarding in itself. The veterans among you won't find much challenge in answering this, but the answer may be very educational for anyone who wants to brush up on simple naval tactics.
Basically, I'm going to describe an interesting battle situation. At the end, I'll ask a question. For me it has only one answer, but there may very well be more than one answer to this question, so use your brains! Best or most accurate answer will win.
So, I was browsing through the pictures on my desktop when suddenly I came across an interesting one that I had posted here quite some time ago. Here's the picture:
This was taken as part of an attempt to perform battle between a SOL and.. well, a Cargo Fluyt. With you being the unfortunate Dutch captain who suddenly has a completely and utterly insane whim to "Bear Down" on an innocent, unsuspecting war machine and make its stinking French captain walk the plank. YARRR.
There's one thing about taking on a 48-gun ship, but it's a whole 'nother thing to take it on when you've got no advantage whatsoever, and are in fact a worthless piece of wood, iron and hemp (lots of hemp, in this case. What did you THINK I was hauling? heh heh heh) with a raging deathwish.
The problem with the scenario was of course the fact that no one in his right mind would spend an entire career sailing said worthless piece in the anticipation of encountering such an opportunity, which is so rare some veteran Pirates! have never actually seen it. And while it has been stipulated already that the captain has to be insane to even consider such a battle, I am unfortunately not.
So I opted for the easy way, to use the Master Trainer on a saved SOL-vs-Pinnace encounter, and change my flagship to a Fluyt. While technically it worked, as you can see, the astute amongst you will quickly notice that something is wrong.
Yes, I'm referring to this:
Heh heh.
It took me three attempts to succeed this attack, mainly because the enemy actually HAD 80 cannons on board, making it 40 cannonballs coming your way with each volley. At first I thought "ok, I'll just dodge the first volley, and it'll take them ages to reload". In truth, it was almost impossible to dodge the first volley altogether, and even a partial hit was enough to stop my ship from moving, in any direction, especially if it was Chainshot, but even roundshot can completely devastate you. Eventually, I decided to try a more passive approach, luring the enemy to come get me, and making a surprise boarding without the enemy ever firing a shot.
That is how it went the third time, when I took this pic and the SOL that appears in it.
Now, the picture was taken at the END of battle, so I'll explain how the ships got to where they are in the screenshot. This part is kinda short, for obvious reasons.
The fluyt entered the battle at the lower right corner of the map, the SOL close to the top right. The wind is blowing to the SouthWest (lower left).
The SOL quickly turns SouthWest. The Fluyt sails directly to the west, firing an obviously pitiful "volley" of Roundshot out the side as it passes the monster, missing miserably. As a crewmember on the fluyt that would be the right time to jump overboard and start swimming away.
But at this point the Fluyt suddenly tacks NorthWestwards, towards the top left corner of the map, closinging the distance between it and the SOL.
This is when the screenshot is taken, right before the two ships collide.
Now, believe it or not, this contest isn't about the Fluyt at all.
At this point you should be asking yourself, "So what the **** is this idiot blabbering about?!"
But you see, my friends, I am not a fluyt captain. Seriously, no. When I see a picture like that, my mind jumps automatically into the seat of the SOL captain. It takes a very long split-second for my brain to realize that in this picture I was the Fluyt rather than the SOL, whether it is a frenchie or not (NEVER!  ).
And of course, in this split second, my brain also analyzed the image and in reflex thought up my next move as the SOL captain. In actual play, the computer AI was being stupid, it just rammed into my ship, boarded me with 300 of his men, and lost miserably to me in a quick and painless duel (We call this the Zippy Canoe Special). But I would've done differently. After all, if you can skip all that stupid swordplay, and watch a fireworks display instead, then why not? Besides, a flaming fluyt full of herbal medicine can make a damn huge cloud = morale jumps back to "very happy and extremely toasted" level that I recommend for any pirate crew.
But enough babbling!
Now boys and girls, the awards-winning question:
What would you do as the SOL captain in this picture?
First (and only) prize is a cool 50!
_________________
Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
b4lazarus
Cutthroat
Posts: 284
4668 Gold -
        more...
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Tack a hard left to the southeast and blast away, lighting up the hemp fluyt with a red hot 40...then I would circle the burning fluyt numerous times, deeply inhaling, enjoying the buzz and a nice sunset.
Break out the rum, too!!
_________________
X |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kvollmer
Cutthroat
Posts: 310
6025 Gold -
        more...
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: depends |
|
|
I'm not a powder monkey but I guess it would depend on the objective. However I admit I'm no SOL captain either so I don't have the greatest feel of its sailing capabilties.
If I just wanted to capture her undamanged I would just let them ram eachother.
If I wanted to sink her I'd break hard to port (south) and unload a broadside of roundshot.
Capture her without a duel I'd break hard to port and unload some chainshot or possibly some grapeshot (maybe a combo salvo) to disable her or lower her crew to nothingness so she'll surrender.
There could however be a case for breaking to starboard (north). And that would be based on the SW position of the fluyt compaired to the SOL that the SOL might not be able to make the turn quick enough to avoid contact. However if you where to break right your firing angle would be a lot more difficult then if you where to break left and fire.
I dont' know if it would be able to make the turn or not but thats just because I sail a Royal Sloop.
Edit: I was also thinking you could drop down to battle sails and break either way, that would help you turn quicker. For obvious reasons I never do this in a Royal Sloop, but the case could be made for this in an SOL.
_________________
Sincerly,
Kirk Vollmer
Don't ever call me Captain Kirk.
Valparaiso University Alumni; Class of 2004 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rupertlittlebear
Helmsman
Posts: 4362
8998 Gold -
 more...
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Contest for Powder Monkeys! |
|
|
| headrock wrote: | Now boys and girls, the awards-winning question:
What would you do as the SOL captain in this picture?
First (and only) prize is a cool 50!
|
surrender to the superior Fluyt and beg to become part of the crew.
The overpowering clue is on the Fluyt's sails.
Any SOTL commander should recognize that he doesn't have a chance against that kind of fire-power.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kvollmer
Cutthroat
Posts: 310
6025 Gold -
more...
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: haha |
|
|
Thats funny. If anyone here smokes that stuff I don't want to know about it. Not a fan of mind altering substances such as drugs or alcohol. I'll drink alcohol but I've limited myself to one drink of anything. Never want to be in a state where I am not capable of makeing a mature decision of sound mind.
_________________
Sincerly,
Kirk Vollmer
Don't ever call me Captain Kirk.
Valparaiso University Alumni; Class of 2004 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rupertlittlebear
Helmsman
Posts: 4362
8998 Gold -
more...
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: haha |
|
|
Prefer this (edited) version.
| kvollmer wrote: | | Never want to be in a state where I am capable of makeing a mature decision of sound mind. |
After all, that's why we have perfume, makeup, money, jewlery and Porche.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
headrock
Rigger
Posts: 1567
312 Gold -
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Muahahahaa. That was a nice and very short first round.
First of all, let's say that Kvollmer has won this contest already, by giving a detailed and all but accurate answer, and this despite him being, as he says, a Sloopmaster. The prize of 50 gold goes to you, and a consolation prize of 20 for B4Lazarus who gave a correct answer as well.
Round two begins after I post this letter - anyone who posts interesting additions to Captain Kirk's answer will receive 20 gold pieces for every such addition. (Sorry Kvollmer, I couldn't resist.  )
And now, let's analyse!!
| Quote: | | If I just wanted to capture her undamanged I would just let them ram eachother. |
As I explained in the pre-battle description, the encounter originally ended with the fluyt simply boarding the SOL and taking her against superior numbers, what's known as the Zippy Canoe Special - a quick battle without firing, where the captain wins a fencing duel so fast that his men don't die off quickly enough. It's very easy to do that on lower difficulty levels, and kinda gets difficult only on Rogue level, for most people.
Don't try that at home, kids.
In other words, if combat ends without causing damage to the Fluyt, the Dutch captain automatically wins the swordfight.
Of course there's also the option of the SOL running away (see Rupe's post  ), which we are also equally ignoring (Despite the fact that Rupe's right ). Let's assume that French SOL captains are stupid enough to take on anything flying that flag .
| Quote: | If I wanted to sink her I'd break hard to port (south) and unload a broadside of roundshot.
Capture her without a duel I'd break hard to port and unload some chainshot or possibly some grapeshot (maybe a combo salvo) to disable her or lower her crew to nothingness so she'll surrender. |
The left turn is the obvious solution. I'll break down the situation to make it more clear:
The SOL is going VERY fast at the time the maneuver begins, headed directly southwest. The wind, as you can see, it heading West now, which gives the SOL a very high speed - SOLs sail best when they're going straight with the wind or just a bit off it.
The Fluyt is headed northwest, more than perpendicular to the wind direction, which makes it slow down. Fluyts aren't fast anyway, but at this angle the wind is actually slowing down the fluyt. If the fluyt turns any more to the right, the wind would probably slow it considerably, or even stop it altogether. However the fluyt is keeping its steady course, hoping that the SOL would ram it, which the SOL's AI eventually did.
In this case, the SOL captain turns hard to port, passing alongside the Fluyt in an opposite direction to it. Due to the turn, the SOL's speed would probably have dropped to about 12 knots - still going almost twice as fast as the fluyt, but the ships are facing opposite to one another, which means they are moving at very high speed relative to each other. At this point, the SOL fires its volley of 40 cannonballs.
At this parallel angel, Chainshot would mostly miss the fluyt, since the dutch are headed the other way. Chainshot, and even moreso Grapeshot, are very slowmoving. Of course, since this is a very wide barrage, comprising of no less than 40 cannonballs, there's a possiblity that some of it might hit the fluyt, but it would not be enough to prevent the sloop from moving away. At this time the fluyt would probably make a left U-turn (it's trying to ram since it knows it has no other chance), and might even be able to board the SOL before it can reload its guns for another volley (remember, we've got 300 men loading 80 cannons!). If the grapeshot or chainshot haven't caused enough damage yet (due to a partial hit), a fencing match would still probably end with the Dutch winning the fencing match. The SOL can also, at this point, steam away from the Fluyt and prepare for another maneuver.
Roundshot, however, would probably catch the ship with at least 15-20 hits, which has some chance to sink the boat depending on difficulty. Again, if the ship is not sunk, on most difficulty levels this still puts you in a position where the fluyt is moving away from you, and you have to make another maneuver to do some damage to it before it boards you. There is less chance for the fluyt to survive this than if you'd have used chainshot or grapeshot, of course, so this solution is even better.
Some of the problems with turning left can be easily alleviated by lowering the sails, as you suggested. With the sails "reefed", the SOL has a much smaller turning radius, and is therefore MUCH less likely to slam into the fluyt instead of passing by it. Also, when the sails are reefed, there's no reason to fire that volley when the ships pass next to each other. In fact, the SOL has a much greater chance of hitting the enemy ship if it turns left, then immediately right, getting behind the Fluyt as it speeds away. The barrage of 80 chainshot would probably hit the fluyt straight in the mainsail, especially if it keeps its sails full or turns left to reengage. However, at this point the fluyt would be slowing down massively, while the SOL is speeding away to the West. The SOL captain has to turn towards the north and pursue his prey. The fluyt is now probably also a bit eastwards of the SOL, so it would take even more time to catch up with it. At this point it is PROBABLY dead in the water and just waiting, but if the barrage wasn't directly on-target, the ship would be even farther away and would take more time to catch. It might even be relatively unscathed, which is another downside to this tactic.
| Quote: | | There could however be a case for breaking to starboard (north). And that would be based on the SW position of the fluyt compaired to the SOL that the SOL might not be able to make the turn quick enough to avoid contact. However if you where to break right your firing angle would be a lot more difficult then if you where to break left and fire. |
And now I'll explain why I think that this is the best solution to the problem.
As you've noted, it's hard to gauge exactly if the SOL would be able to make the right turn without ramming the Fluyt and initiating combat accidentally. However an accomplished Frigate captain would tell you that by reefing the sails this maneuver becomes very doable. We are assuming of course that this turn is done in the exact situation that is pictured in the screenshot. While the frigate is going rather fast, the reef and turn would slow it down and reduce its radius of turning simultaneously. The maneuver ends with both the two ships almost perpendicular to each other, but facing almost the same direction! At this point, any broadside of any kind that flies from the SOL will land a 60-80% hit on the fluyt. This is anywhere between 24 and 32 cannonballs at least, hitting the fluyt with its sails raised (It's trying to catch you). Since the fluyt is moving generally towards you at this point, any type of ammunition is equally effective against it, so it's your pick of sinking her or breaking her mast, or simply cutting their crew in half just before their ship slams into you; we're assuming there's no need to gain any more distance at this point, since the fluyt is now considered a loser and would probably even surrender.
There is also the possibility that when you turn right, the fluyt will ALSO turn right in order to avoid you. This is a somewhat annoying situation.
However, in this situation, the fluyt has made its last error by turning off-wind, and has subsequently become stuck in place, its speed dropping to anywhere from 1-3 knots, depending on how far their turn went. The SOL simply breaks left (aided by powerful winds as it heads westwards), and fires her volley (which she hadn't had the opportunity to fire yet). An 80-cannon volley on a non-moving target is guaranteed about 70-80% hit ratio, regardless of ammo type, on a medium-sized target as the Fluyt. The wind is probably pushing the fluyt so that it turns north or west, meaning its side is to the SOL and would sustain a major hit. The SOL would have to swing around from the south if it means to capture the Fluyt, of course, but at least in this situation the fluyt is not going anywhere, if it is still in one piece that is.
I'm hoping to post some diagrams of all this.
| Quote: | | Thats funny. If anyone here smokes that stuff I don't want to know about it. Not a fan of mind altering substances such as drugs or alcohol. I'll drink alcohol but I've limited myself to one drink of anything. Never want to be in a state where I am not capable of makeing a mature decision of sound mind. |
A pirate that doesn't drink rum? A pirate capable of making mature decisions of sound mind?
Eh?
(P.S. cheque's in the mail)
_________________
Blondebeard: "Madre de Dios! Es el Pollo Diablo!!"
<Spanish Guitar Riff>
Guybrush: "Si! He dejado en libertad los prisioneros, y ahora vengo por TE!"
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Buckaneer Rogers
Swabbie
Posts: 59
474 Gold -
 
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
He's got one gun. I've got 80. He's going 7 knots, I'm going 15. Easy!
Tack northwest and give 'em a broadside of chain. With that many guns, at that range, it's impossible to miss, and his sails will take on the consistency and taste of chocolate pudding.
_________________
"After all, suprise is on our side."
-Captain "Lucky" Jack Aubrey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WhiteHawk
Swabbie
Posts: 68
140 Gold -
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I think I would do the same. If I'm going faster and I've got more guns, then I think it would be easiest to turn right and shoot off a broadside. Of course, If the guns were going to take a while to reload, then I would board, since I have advantage when it comes to crew.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GreyFox
Swabbie
Posts: 101
657 Gold -
  
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: Sap it's remaining energy and rock it. |
|
|
Well,for start a full broadside in chain-shot to destroy the sails and minimize the ship speed to 0,if possible.
Then on,he's a sitting duck,I'd perform a U-Turn,considering a ship at
15 knots should be capable of that quickly,though I can't be sure as I
don't comandeer a SOL in a while now.
Anyway,once I got my other side on them,or I've reloaded the first's guns,whichever came first,I fired another broadside,surely hitting,considering their speed down to nil,of grape-shot.
Their crew is low already,and upon 40 cannons fired with grapeshot,their crew would certainly go down heavily.
From then on it's ramming time,even if I sucked at swordplay(which I by absolutely no means do),I would still assure victory,he certainly couldn't take me out before his crewmen got decimated,if it wasn't eliminated by the bombarding already.
If I couldn't at all risk a duel,though,i'd just keep smashing it with roundshots after the 2nd broadside.
_________________
"Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RF1992
Powder Monkey
Posts: 14
183 Gold -
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would blast it enough so you could board it with out any trouble. then just when it gets dark put the enemy captain on board load it with gunpowder and sit back with a bottle o' rum and watch the fireworks! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gmatt
Swabbie
Posts: 61
403 Gold -
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd probably just sink the fluyt, then save the game right away so I could keep my 80 guns hip. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lill-Troll
Seaman
Posts: 184
3000 Gold -
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, considdering the Speed of the SoL, I'd make hard for starboard and unload an unforgiving volley of Chainshots.
Sailing broad is a strongpoint of the SoL, turning Port would likely kill the spedd, as you'd eitehr run into the Fluyt, or loose enough momentum for the Fluyt to board ya and make you "loose" the advantage of having a superior ship.
Chances are big the volley would miss, but as pointed out I still should be able to avoid collision and gain a more favourable position downwind of the Fluyt.
_________________
"If I didn't hate life, what would I spend all my time raving about?" - Silvertail |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Young gun
Powder Monkey
Posts: 19
-501 Gold -
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
I would turn hard to starboard and shoot her with chainshot till her mast broke, then blow her to davy jones with round. 
_________________
Young Gun |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group |
|
